Navigating Your Neurospicyness | Professional Pimpology x Neurospicy Black Girl

In her first ever collaboration, join Alani as she talks with fellow neurospicy Black girl, Liz from "Professional Pimpology" as she learns about navigating her neurodivergence from a seasoned professional. Can you handle all of this neurospicyness?

Check out Professional Pimpology here: https://professionalpimpology.taplink.ws/

Transcript

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[MUSIC PLAYING] Hi, I'm Alani. I'm black, female, and neurodivergent, AKA I lost the genetic lottery. The only thing I could do is pull myself up by my bootstraps and live whatever life takes me. If anyone deserves to profit from my trauma, it's me. That's the life of a Neurospicy Black Girl.[MUSIC PLAYING][Alani] Welcome to "Neurospicy Black Girl," the only place where, actually, surprisingly, I'm not by myself this time. This time, I am doing my first neurospicy collaboration.[APPLAUSE][Alani] So joining me today is Liz from the podcast"Professional Pimpology."[Liz] Hey, I-- hey, my name is Liz. I'm so happy to be here today. And Alani is super awesome. And I just wanted to, like, collab with her and hop on her podcast. So here I am.[Alani] Thank you for being here, and thank you for wanting to collab with me. It was really an honor. Let's get to know each other a little bit more and introduce yourself to my audience as well. So although this might be a very hated question in regular interviews, but can you tell us more about yourself?[Liz] Well, so I had my own epiphany over the last couple of years of understanding that I, too, am a Neurospicy Black Girl, which is very, very interesting. I mean, I'm super outgoing, but then I'm extroverted and introverted. I'm loud and quiet. And I am pretty much just, as of right now, I work in community engagement, which is super fun. I love helping my community. I love working with the kiddos and everything. And my job is super awesome. But the thing about it is that I've always struggled with my regular life, your regular nine to five life, and being a creative. And over the past couple of years, I've been attempting to explore my creative side. Like, typically growing up, they just was like, read books, which reading is fundamental. And I agree. But I'm actually an 80s baby. So computers in the home really wasn't a thing. Until I was maybe about 15 or 16, and I didn't have access to a lot of things. My parents didn't really nurture, hey, they would give me a little paint set that was probably about it in terms of art. There was nowhere to really expand. So it took me a while to realize that what my interests were. And I just kind of wanted to explore those interests. And I realized that I love tech. I love art. And I'm not very good at those things, but I'm learning. And I think that that's the main thing about myself is that I love to learn. Because first, I have to show things to know if I even have an interest and want to explore it. So I would classify myself as a great explorer. Like, I'm here to explore everything. When I gravitate towards something, then just try to study it more and see if that might be a thing.[Alani] You're also a Neurospicy Black Girl like me. If you mind telling us, what is your condition?[Liz] That's an interesting question. Well, I know for sure that I've been diagnosed with ADHD. There's been others that has been floating around. I don't feel like they were necessarily accurate, but definitely the ADHD for sure. Possible CPTSD. Again, we're still exploring that. But the ADHD definitely be kicking. So I know that that's definitely a thing. And actually, my mom found out when I was two. Now, remember, I'm an 80s baby. So health, mental health, it's not necessarily a thing in the black community, especially when you are with Caribbean parents. So it was just always like, just stop your foolishness. So I actually was lead poisoned when I was two. So I ended up going and getting a lot of diagnostics. And that's when they found out that I had ADHD. And I think my mom would have been OK with certain things. But then, you know, typically they just like heavily medicated kids in the 80s. And when I was about six, they was like, yeah, we want to give her Ritalin. And she was like, no. And I'm happy she said no. But that was pretty much it for any kind of advocacy for the ADHD. And she never told me I always got in trouble in school for talking. Like, you know, I was a great student. But, you know, in that little comment section, "she talks too much." And "she's a little fidgety." And I would get in trouble for these things. And now I'm like, well, why would you whoop my ass for it? If you know I got ADHD, like that's, you know. So but, you know, she she wasn't educated, you know, about it. And the only thing was like medication. And that's it. Like we didn't have all of the tools that we have now of modifications and accommodations and things like that. So, truthfully, when I became a teacher, maybe about three years ago. And again, I actually have worked in the mental health field as an advocate. And I'm like, if I didn't know any better, I would think I have ADHD, you know. And it was always like a running joke and everyone kind of laughed about it. But then I'm like, no, wait, I actually do think I have ADHD. And then when I did go to a therapist and they're like, oh, yeah. And then I tell my mom, hey, you know, they told me that I have ADHD. And she's like, oh, yeah, that's what they told me you had. I'm like, what you knew this whole time that I had the ADHD and you did not tell me. And she's like, oh, but you were fine. And I'm like, yeah, but life was also very difficult. And it would have been nice if you would have told me that I have these things. And, you know, and again, I'm just like, why'd you whip my ass for having ADHD? She's like, well, I didn't look at it that way. And I'm like, yeah, but, you know, I give her a lot of grace because, you know, if you don't know, you don't know. And they just didn't know. We weren't having the conversations that we have now. So.[Alani] Honestly, I did not expect lead poisoning to be Part of the story. Oh, but wow. Yeah, the 80s, man.[Liz] Yeah, the 80s was tough.[Alani] Yeah, even with technological advances, I don't think times have changed, especially if you have Caribbean parents.[Liz] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will say that at least with, it is more acceptable, right? Like it's more, you know, we're hearing it more. It's more mainstream. And I feel like they think about it a little bit more than they did in the past, but there's still like a big divide of that understanding. But I do feel like, you know, they're a little bit more open minded. Like I notice now they're a little bit more open to therapy. But I still feel like they think that diagnosis is an excuse like, oh, like you should just like try and get over it. And I'm like, but that's not how that works.[Alani] Right. [Liz] Like, I mean, I do believe in personal accountability. You know, I have dealt with people who would use. I don't want to say that they would use their, you know, diagnosis as an excuse, but it still was like, you're not doing your due diligence. Like start somewhere. Like even if, you know, we want you to be here. It's like, OK, well, what is that baby step? Whatever it might be, you know? But at the same time, it's kind of like you can try and fail. That's OK. Just try, you know, right?[Alani] Right. [Liz] So yeah, that's one of that.[Alani] And we're going to segue into how you use your ADHD or your podcast, "Professional Pimpology. So can you tell me like what inspired you to create professional apology and how does neurodivergence influence your storytelling?[Liz] Oh, well, OK, so again, I'm super happy to be here because you are a graduate of the BRIC podcast intensive. And last year I was part of that cohort. And being completely honest, recently I've been focusing on my neurodivergency and how it would affect me, which is funny because again, as an advocate, like I'm really great at telling someone else like, hey, you know, you have to be patient with yourself and, you know, this is your diagnosis and it's OK if you have to work around things. But for whatever the reason, those things didn't apply to myself. It was actually, you know, being inspired by your podcast. And I'm like, hey, you know what? I need to pay a little bit more attention. So when I came to see the new cohort graduate and I saw your podcast, like I immediately gravitated because I'm like, aha, because the truth of the matter is, you know, just like you, I was super excited to get into my podcast and neurodivergency hit. It caused me to be a little depressed, not being able to do the things that I knew that I was capable of, but then having these blockages and not being able to understand what's going on. And I'm like, you should be able to try and you could do it. And then it was like, wah, wah, wah, because like I just was like in that that space. So, you know, that's the reason why like I'm happy to collab with you. And, you know, for us to do one episode on your podcast and for me to basically is this like my my welcome back party almost talking about my neurodivergency? Like, yeah, I think this is my welcome back party because so last intensive I hit the ground running. I had my one episode and then it was crickets because again, neurodivergency, you know, creeped up on me. So, you know, that's why I'm kind of super excited to incorporate my neurodivergency in my podcast because I'm not the only one. So, you know, my podcast, "Professional Pempology", it is still going to be true to how it was, but I'm going to incorporate something. So basically, I feel like, generally speaking, employers are our pimps and where they're hoes, you know, like I feel like there's just a lot of exploitation and I don't want to be a pimp by any means. But I don't want to be a hoe either. Like, I mean, this should be mutually beneficial, you know. So I actually stumbled upon a book a few years back from this guy, this pimp. He wrote a book and it was like 48 Laws of Pimping or something like that. And I'm like, hey, how can we have those rules applied to the workplace? So that is where "Professional Pimpology", you know, came about because, you know, I am a professional, you know, but I'm also studying these pimp rules. So that's where "Professional Pimpology" comes in. And how my neurodivergency will now tie in is that we have to be honest with ourselves and explore, you know, all of the dynamics of what makes us who we are because there's this rule book, you know, when you go to school, there are these rules, you know, and even with this pimp book, there's these rules. But everyone can't follow the rules the same way because everyone is different. So, you know, I'm definitely want to talk about like if this is a standard rule, how can you adjust that rule for everyone? Because we don't live in a world by ourselves. So it's not like we can expect everyone to just completely change the rules because I'm neurodivergent. Not to mention what happens if you have two neurodivergent people in the same room? Then which one do you choose? Right? So... [Alani] Right, like right now.[Liz] Right. Like right now. So, you know, we definitely, you know, want to learn the rules, but then also modify it so that we can be successful because if we look at a rule and it's a rule that only could be done one way and I can't do it that way, then does that mean that I should completely give up? No, that means that I have to modify it for myself.[Alani] That's really a lot, but it's still good. You know, we, we ND's like we got a lot of talk about and stuff. So yeah. So about your professional pimpin.[Liz] Well, professional Pimpology.[Alani] Pimpology.[Liz] Yeah.[Alani] A big, um, huge part is about communication, essentially. My question would be, what was your first experience disclosing your neurodivergence to someone?[Liz] In the past, I was a job developer. So job developers, someone that goes out and they find employment for individuals. And I was working with individuals that had intellectual disabilities as well as mental health. The thing about it is that I was taught that, you know, everyone should be accepting. I quickly realized that that is not the case. So it actually made me a little nervous to disclose personally, because like I even noticed my co-workers who should have the same open mindedness. Because again, if you chose this job, then you should do this job. Well, they did not live by the standards that at least that I have, you know, in terms of being accepted and understanding of people, you know, with any kind of disability, not just necessarily mental health, but just across the board. And, you know, I would hear the disparaging remarks that they would say, you know, to them and about them. And, you know, a lot of times, like I would never forget one time we had a client that was schizophrenic. And there was this one co-worker that would just, anytime she had a complaint about him, he would be like, "she made it up." And I'm like, "well, OK, yes, there are times that she may have episodes, but any time something comes up, we need to, you know, fully analyze the situation because she's not always making it up." And, you know, he was using that as a crutch, but I was able to see, no, you were wrong. OK. And again, I'm a very strong advocate. And so with that being said, you know, I always had concerns of saying, hey, this is what I'm going through. Because then when I have something legitimate that I'm talking about, I fear that they would just say, "oh, well, you know, she's just such and such in blasé, blasé, blasé." And then, especially since people aren't even educated about, you know, how, you know, different neurodivergent, you know, people behave, you know, or act, like even if someone is depressed, they will just kind of be like, "oh, yeah, you know, she's just exaggerating" or whatever, whatever. And, you know, "she could get up out of bed" and I'm like, "I'm grateful. I'm happy for you that you've never experienced that so you can't identify because clearly you don't understand, you know." So getting back to the actual question. So, you know, in my friendships, you know, I would say, hey, you know, not necessarily like I have ADHD that actually came because again, I didn't realize I had ADHD to like a few years ago. But, you know, even like just saying, "oh, I'm depressed." And they're like, "oh, girl, well, we all depressed and we all", oh, you know, my biggest pet peeve, "we all got a little bit of ADHD." I'm like, no.[Alani] I hate that statement.[Liz] Right. So, you know, I'm always very, very careful about disclosing. However, in my personal relationships, yeah, I've been a little bit more open, but professionally, especially since I used to be an advocate, you know, and basically with any job that you have, like, regardless of what your condition is, you have to be able to fulfill the basic functions of the job. And I saw that there were times that I was unable to. So I, at that time, I kind of had to disclose, you know, especially, you know, as a teacher, you know, I had to disclose and I disclosed actually the physical. I disclosed like my physical disabilities. I actually did not disclose the mental health because I felt like people can understand physical limitations more than they can understand mental health and limitations. So I actually have never disclosed professionally. My mental health conditions, but I have disclosed like those invisible, you know, physical and even still, I did not get the response I was hoping for. So like, it still kind of makes me nervous to disclose if I'm being honest.[Alani] Yeah, I get it completely. Honestly, I'm an entry-level professional and I've heard about horror stories about disclosing during a job and even before the job, like, for example, on applications, like if you put that you have a disability of any kind and I've experienced it myself too, like my application automatically gets like rejected and stuff like I don't even make it to the interview stage.[Liz] Right.[Alani] And like, so I've purposely not disclosed my disability or even my race, probably only my gender, because I'm like, I want to get at least to an interview. Stage, you know. And as far as like disclosing my, neurodivergence, like I felt like at times where I try to disclose, I feel like it was sort of like used as and perhaps because I was at like a toxic work environment, I felt like it was like sort of used as an attack against me or like it was used as like a threat, essentially, where like I was like looking, looking under a microscope, like if I make any little mistake in quotation marks or if I just have like an off days, it's like, oh, nope, performance improvement plan![Liz] Right.[Alani] I felt like they were just like looking for a way to get me out, essentially.[Liz] Right. Right. You know, the thing that I find kind of interesting too, because again, well, OK, let's start off with there's a lot of undiagnosed people walking around. You know, let's start off with that, you know, so like a lot of times it's so funny that someone that they might actually have that condition and it actually might be more severe, but because they haven't been diagnosed, they will like point the finger at you like shame, shame, shame. And it's kind of like, well, I'm receiving the support that I need. And I hope you do the same, you know, but like even if someone is neurodivergent, sometimes it's not like we're human, right? Everyone is human. Everyone makes mistakes. So, you know, for me, you know, what kind of annoyed me is like someone that was bold enough and honest enough to say, hey, you know, this is my condition. They would often be demonized, you know, or, you know, ostracized. And it's kind of like, OK, but that could have been a mistake that anyone could have done. You know, anyone could have made it, whether you are diagnosed, undiagnosed, whatever it is, adulting is hard in general. I think everyone struggles with it. Like I almost feel like you would have to be an alien to not struggle with being an adult, you know, if you're going to be a responsible adult, right? And yeah, I just feel like often times like things that are just typical for anyone to do, it'll be like, "aha, because she has this, this and this. This is the reason why, you know," and it's just things, people being people. So. [Alani] Have there have been times where like you regret disclosing whatever if it's in the workplace or like or in general? [Liz] You know, man.[Alani] Oh, man, that breath.[Liz] So when it comes to dating, which man, am I hearing episode two coming along? Because dating is particularly tough for me, right? Because I feel like, you know, even when it comes to my friendships or work, you know, I can kind of like separate that time, you know? So if I am going to be masking, which I don't think I mask intentionally, but then I do still believe that I do it, you know, and it's kind of like, OK, you know, I can mask for a certain amount of time. But then when you have a personal relationship, you know, and assuming that you like this individual and they're around, then there's going to be things that you can't hide. So I feel like I have to be honest, you know, with that. And I mean, and isn't that the whole point of having a relationship? Like having a relationship and dating means that you should have someone that you could rely on. And I feel like I've disclosed things that I've gone through in the past. So it wasn't necessarily me disclosing that I had a condition. Because again, to be fair, I don't know if I really believe the diagnosis is that I had at the time. But, you know, I disclose things that obviously would be a little alarming and people would probably assume you would have issues having gone through these things. And then they're just like, you know, in an argument and again, valid point. Like if you are cheating, if I see that you have, you know, not followed the rules that we have set in our relationship and you've cheated, why are you calling me crazy? You know, why am I like...? It is a very logical response to be upset that your boyfriend or whoever you may have in your life is not being faithful. And then they will turn around and use that prior history of, "oh, you're just sensitive because of that. It's not a big deal." And it's kind of like, "listen, I'm not even saying that there isn't truth to that." Like I may be more sensitive to someone crossing boundaries because of, you know, my diagnosis or, you know, things that I've dealt with in the past, but you were still wrong. And I feel like people.[Alani] That's a form of manipulation, by the way.[Liz] Right. And I feel like they will escape accountability. So, you know, because I've disclosed these things. So then it's almost like, I feel like if I didn't disclose, then you would not be able to use that as an excuse and you would just, we would just have to focus on the issue, which is you were wrong here, you know, but, you know, I struggle with letting people in and dating. And I'm like, dude, I mean, it's cute. I like the idea of dating. It seems nice, you know, especially, you know, Christmas time. Maybe cute if we had a little match and pajama set, but I do not want to be gaslit. So if I'm going to have, like, you know, a beautiful, you know, relationship, then you have to be open. And I'm not sure how open I am because you have to kiss a whole bunch of frogs before you get the prince. And I don't really like frogs like that. So I'm struggling, but I do know that when I am ready to date, then, you know, I'm going to have to be open. And I think the best thing that we all should do, I mean, and not even necessarily just being neurodivergent, but just anything that may be tough to have a conversation about is that we should really evaluate this person to see if they are worthy of us opening up to them. I think that that's kind of where I might have gone wrong, you know, if someone does not have the ability to understand or they don't have the maturity to know how to, you know, have certain conversations without using it as an attack, then maybe that person should not be in your life, you know. But it definitely takes me a while to be able to pinpoint, you know, certain things to determine whether or not I should go to the next level. So I'm just avoiding dating like the plague right now.[Alani] Yeah, I get it.[Liz] But we'll see. Yeah.[Alani] I mean, the dating pool not really looking good so far, though.[Liz] It's not, man. It's really not. So.[Alani] When we talk about reactions and stuff, actually brought me to like a good question I wanted to ask, how do you handle misconceptions or stereotypes that people maybe have about neurodivergence?[Liz] You know what? I just, so I feel like when you're neurodivergent for a lot of people, they have reduced confidence and I just stand on it. I'll just bet that's not correct. Actually, no, you watch too much TV. Maybe you need to educate yourself. Like I'll kind of put like, if I see someone that's being like super ignorant, I'm like, oh, well, you know, I'm grateful that I am working on my issues. You too need to do the same and I will forward some articles to help you become more familiar. Like I think that that's kind of what I will do at this point. You know, if someone legitimately don't know, but they're being super open minded about it, then, you know, I won't be as catty with that. But, you know, in general, I'm great to like send the link. Yeah, read this article to help yourself become more familiar or whatever, whatever. But, you know, anyone who I always try to check myself. Let's start with that because I'm not going to lie. Even myself as well-versed as I'd like to say that I am, I too fall into stereotypes, you know, like I have assumptions about, you know, cultures that I'm not familiar with where I think that everything is an absolute truth and it's not correct. You know, so again, you know, the same way I'm open minded for someone saying, hey, you know, and educating me, if I do know something that that person don't know, then, you know, I just try to spread that information. I'm like, actually, you know, that's not really accurate. It is a lot harder to do, though, when they're attacking you in the moment. So, yeah, when I'm getting attacked, I'm like, oh, clearly you don't know. So, yeah, I might be a little stank with it. Like, yeah, oh, so you don't understand and you're misinformed, but it's OK because I'm here to help you. So this is how it really works.[Alani] Hey, I wanna say. I think we need to be more stank to be honest. I feel like I've been being too nice to people or something. Sometimes I just want to like go off, you know.[Liz] You know, I'm not going to lie, you know, the spicy part in neurospicy, baby. I got like, listen, you're not you're not going to just tell me because again, you know, I understand that everyone is not going to know everything. Right. Like everyone is not going to know everything. So I'm not going to fault someone for like not knowing something because there's a lot of things that I don't know. But it's when they want to be wrong and strong. Oh, it just feels good to just knock them down like bam, bam, bam. You're wrong. Here's the proof. Here's the evidence. And like, I mean, and again, if you're just standing in your truth and someone is in and I'll flat out tell people like when we're having a conversation and they're being ignorant, I'll be like, well, I don't really know how to argue with stupid. So I'm going to just exit out of this conversation. And like, that's... [Alani] Yeah, that's what you gotta do. I believe I think it's The Art of War. Where it says "you got to choose your battles."[Liz] Right. I mean, and truthfully, and you know what? It's it's OK. I'm not going to say it's OK. Let me take that back. It's not OK to be ignorant, right? But sometimes it takes us a while to realize that we have that ignorance, right? Right. So if the person is right, right? If you're not self aware, even if it's in your face, you're not going to understand it. And it's not even like a judgment thing to say because I've been there too, where I said what I said because I thought I was right. Like people like, oh, because you always think you're right. And I'm like, well, if I thought it was wrong, I wouldn't have said it. So clearly I thought it was right. But I am open-minded enough to know that I'm not right about everything. So, you know, and I apologize. And that's another thing to apologizing because sometimes I'm wrong and I might have been stank unnecessarily. But then I have no promising. You know what? I apologize. I'm sorry. I didn't realize X, Y, Z, or one, two, three, you know, but I'm here now or you know. And again, and it's up to them whether or not they want to accept it or not. They don't want to accept it. It's OK. There's no beef on my end. But, you know, we people accept things when they're ready to accept it.[Alani] Right. [Liz] But. I'm not arguing with stupid. So I just like, yeah, I'm done. And, you know, that's pretty much how I would deal with that. You know, I'll try to check them right then and there. If they're not open to it, then I just walk away. Yeah. Most people, most people aren't even important enough in my life for me to try to explain these things to them. So it's like, if you have no real value to me, I kind of don't care what you think. But now if it's your friend or your boss or your mom, then it's like, all right. But honestly, no, even my mom, I'm like, OK, so I'm over this conversation. And yeah, I will. I'll still walk away. Like at the end of the day, there's no reason for me to continue to engage in a conversation, because one thing that I know about myself I am open minded and I'm calm until I'm not. And I don't really know how to deal with my own ignorance. And I actually know when I'm getting to that point. But like, I cannot take it back. Like once the Pandora's box was open, that's it. And so so I actually, since I'm aware and I know that about myself, when I start seeing myself in situations that could get me there, I'm just going to exit.[Alani] Right. Right. [Liz] Because then because then I'm going to be wrong. And, you know, often times people focus on how the person said something, even if they were right, they're focusing on focusing on the delivery. So I always want to make sure that you understand what I was saying and that how I reacted to it wasn't a distraction. So as soon as I find myself getting ignorant, that's OK, it's time for me to go.[Alani] Yes, sometimes it's just not what you say, it's how you say it.[Liz] It is how you say it. And again, across the board and as you know, I feel like we need to be aware of, you know, people's, you know, limitations across the board. But how about we're just nice to everyone across the board? You know, I think that that goes a long way. And I think that that's kind of part of things too that I struggle with, where it's kind of like, OK, yes, I might need certain things because I have, you know, conditions or whatever. But in general, nobody should be experiencing these things, right? So like when we talk about boundaries, I will probably be more affected by someone, you know, crossing a boundary because I have limitations, but you should not cross anyone's boundaries. Right. So so so it's almost like I get a little defensive of me feeling like I have to disclose so that people can just be the general good humans that they should have always been. And it's like, well, truthfully, I would not need an accommodation if you were just a good human. Like, why do I need this? You know? [Alani] Honestly, I feel like this is a big conversation.[Liz] That's a bigger conversation.[Alani] We got to circle back to that in a future episode.[Liz] Yeah, yeah, I definitely see some round two and three is coming with this collaboration.[Alani] And speaking of limitations, I was talking about the whole you probably heard of it about "X neurodivergence is a superpower," like "ADHD is a superpower, autism is a superpower," etc. So. To settle this...[Liz] OK, I hate it. I hate it. [Alani] I didn't even have to ask![Liz] I hate it. So here's the thing. Having ADHD, sometimes you can hyper focus, right? And I do appreciate those moments. So I so I understand where they're going in terms of it being a superpower. But I hate it so much because it's kind of like there are limitations, you know. Yeah, I don't really like to say that there are pros and cons. I just think that everyone is different. Everyone has, you know, different strengths. But when you're like, it's a superpower, they make it seem like it's opening a door that other people don't have. And I'm like, no, because as much as I can hyper focus, sometimes I like spiral down the hole, you know, even in preparing for our episode and I felt so bad, you know, I felt so bad because, you know, I'm like, you know, I was sick, you know, I wasn't feeling well, which that brought me down the spiral. And then, of course, now there's a little bit of anxiety that comes together, you know, comes into place. And I'm like, I got to review my notes. And what do I end up doing? Researching socks. Why am I looking at it? And then I'm like, and I'm almost like yelling like, why are you looking at socks now when you have to like prepare for this episode? I don't think that was a superpower. Like I was aware why that was happening, but I couldn't stop it from happening. So, no, no, I don't think that it's a superpower. I feel like there are times that things can work in your favor. But to call it a superpower, I will say is a bit of a reach.[Alani] Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, like how you said that, it's a there are, sometimes it can work in your favor and other times it could be a huge disadvantage.[Liz] Right, right. Like definitely, like it's a huge, you know, I found it more of a disadvantage than an advantage because, OK, when it comes to like people being able to like read minds or being invisible, like those are considered to be superpowers.[Alani] Right.[Liz] If I told you I could read your mind, you would be like, "wow, that's amazing!" I've never heard anyone say, "wow, you have ADHD.""That's great!"[Alani] Right! Exactly![Liz] I don't really think it's a superpower because if it was a superpower, then there would be more of a positive response.[Alani] Yeah, exactly.[Liz] So. [Alani] Like I wouldn't be like infantiliized, in my case.[Liz] Oh, yeah. Yeah, because, you know, I either get the oh, "you know, you got to get over it" or or "we all have a little bit of ADHD.""We all we're all a little autistic." No, you know, there's actually a set of criteria outlined by the DSM-5. That will diagnose you, which, you know, interestingly enough, like when it comes to autism, you know, my therapist actually is like, yeah, you could be, you know, because... [Alani] Yeah, same here.[Liz] Because historically, you know, in the past, which is why I love the evolution and the, you know, the learning that we have in terms of like mental health conditions, you know, if you had ADHD, you could not be autistic. You know, like, yeah, prior to you just could not have both of those diagnoses together, you know, and I, those that are close to me might be able to see my quirks more than someone that sees me in passing, you know.[Alani] Yeah.[Liz] You know, so we're not sure. But again, needless to say- [Alani] And autism and ADHD, sorry to interrupt. They have comorbidities.[Liz] Right.[Alani] Yeah, they have lots of similarities to one another.[Liz] Right.[Alani] Overlapping symptoms.[Liz] Right. So I'm not going to I'm not going to self diagnose, you know, like I have not been officially diagnosed, although the question has come up a few times. But well, I knew, well, OK, I did self diagnose myself as ADHD before, not knowing that I had that diagnosis in the past and it has been confirmed. So I could definitely speak on that. And it ain't a superpower. OK. OK. At least not for me. But there are times that it is useful, like perfect case in point. So society likes extroverted individuals, you know, for whatever the reasons, you know, they just kind of like push everyone to be extroverted. Yeah, I'm not. OK, I am an extroverted individual. I admit this, like because and again, it could be my ADHD making me a little hyperactive, you know, and maybe I've just learned certain places where, you know, it works, right?[Alani] Right.[Liz] So. So OK. In that aspect, maybe it's an advantage. But then it's still a disadvantage because then I deal with burnout. Like after I've gone to that great party and everyone was like, oh, yeah, you know,"we had such a great time with Liz." Liz is now down for two to three days because I am tired. You know, so again, there are times where it works in certain scenarios. And I can't quite pinpoint when I'm being an ADHD or like, I don't I don't know. This is just the way I've always been, but I am trying to be more mindful to understand it. But at the same time, too, I don't want it to define my life. Right. So it's like I'm paying attention and I'm being aware. But I'm just still being Liz at the end of the day. And I'm just like, if that's my thing, that's my thing. But sometimes I'm aware that I'm, you know, having an ADHD moment and it works. So I'll use it when I can. But yeah, that downtime is not fun at all. Yeah.[Alani] So I want to sort of like wrap this up. Since we're talking about the real, like, effects of being called a super power and just being misunderstood in general. What would be some advice you would give to someone, especially either an entry entry-level professional or or even someone that's above entry-level? If they realize that they are neurodivergent or they have the diagnosis, but they still don't know how to disclose it, like, how would you say they would go about disclosing it, whether it's in the workplace or with their friends, family, etc.?[Liz] Well, I'm still said person trying to figure out how to disclose to people. I mean, OK, the first thing that I would just say is that we have to accept that everyone will not accept, you know, our thoughts. Right. First, assess your situation, right? Because it may not be appropriate to disclose sometimes, you know, especially if you have a job. So like when it comes to work, make sure you can actually do the job. Right. Like I have a job that requires a lot of communication. If your condition prohibits you from communicating maybe you should have choose that job. Right. So let's start off with, you know, when it comes to work, you know, making sure that we are fully knowledgeable of, well, and again, we'll never learn everything like I learned things about myself every day, you know. Yeah. And I thought I knew it all and I did not know know everything. So just continue to educate yourself because you have to be comfortable with yourself before you expect someone else to be comfortable with you. So I would start off with that, you know, after you do that, then you would definitely want to like assess the situation, you know, because again, if you're saying that, you know, you need an accommodation and it's in a direct conflict with the actual job that you do, that ain't going to work. Right. So. [Alani] I might have learned that the hard way.[Liz] Right. Right. Right. And I would definitely say that you would want to, you know, analyze the person that you're talking to, you know, initially, I wouldn't want to disclose it in a group. You know, I would try to do it as like on a one-on-one, you know, scenario. And, you know, just kind of see, you know, I'll kind of like maybe drop little hints first to see how they respond to that. And then if they're open minded, then I might disclose a little bit more. Make sure that you can trust. I would say, you know, definitely make sure you have trust in the person. And if you don't have trust in the person and you're at work, then I would just stick to the legal part that you have to tell them. Often times, you don't actually have to disclose your actual diagnosis. You would just need to say that, "hey, my doctor says I need these accommodations", you know, so I think that, you know, I almost kind of start off with that, you know, where if I trust you, then I might go more in depth with my diagnosis to say, hey, this is how it affects me. But if I don't want to do that or I don't feel safe to do that, then. Typically, there would be like a HR department or someone like that where. So like let's say, you don't feel comfortable talking to like your actual boss, you know, then find someone that, you know, is, you know, within the same. Well, you should know like your company dynamics and, you know, what that ladder looks like and who would be the appropriate person. But like find that person and even still, you don't have to say, I have this. You just need to say, I have because if you have a doctor's note and your doctor says that this is the accommodation that you need and they decide that, oh, it's not a big deal. They actually can be held liable and you can sue them. So HR is not your friend by any means.[Alani] Learned that the hard way too.[Liz] Right. They are not your friend, but they do have to follow the law. So at a bare minimum, even if they're not going to be compassionate, you know, because again, a lot of times we're kind of hoping that we would see a little bit of compassion. We may not see that, but at a bare minimum, you need to follow the law. And if you don't follow the law, I'm going to sue you. And then I won't even have to work for you anyway, because I got your money anyway. So. [Alani] period. [Liz] Right.[Alani] So I'm gonna make sure I make this a sound bite so it could be reshared. And yeah, this is really good information.[Liz] Right. Absolutely.[Alani] And also so I got listeners that are neurotypical, AKA not neurodivergent and so and we got like friends and stuff that are possibly neurotypical as well. I should say presumably. [Liz] Right.[Alani] How would you say what can they do to help support us? Or at least I should I say the bigger society should do to help support some Neurospicy Black Girls?[Liz] Well, I say step one is to listen to this podcast right now, because we dropped a couple of gems, right? Because true for the matter is if it's not something that, you know, like perfect case in point, I have a daughter. I've always taught her, you know, to be mindful of people that are around her because you don't know what they have going on. Right. But like if you were not raised in that, you know, kind of environment, then definitely educate yourself, you know, go to sources that can help you understand, you know, neurodivergent individuals. And, you know, if you have someone that's close to you, you know, feel free to ask questions, but you definitely, I would also say test the waters as well, you know, like you don't want to just like jump in and ask a question that might be like extremely abrasive if that person wasn't ready to handle that. But, you know, I could I would even start off by saying, "hey, you know, I had a couple of questions. Is it OK?" Like ask me, ask if it's OK. Right. [Alani] Right.[Liz] Because and the truth of the matter is I'm extremely open. The majority of the time. So if you turn around and you assume that I'm open minded today and I'm having a moment, I might attack you. I'm not going to lie. So, you know, I think that you want to start off as,"oh, is it OK if I share, you know, a couple of questions that I might have had or a couple of experiences that I've had", you know, so, you know, start off by asking if it's OK. You know, the majority of us, you know, will say, sure, ask away. But if you don't ask me if it's OK, then I'm going to probably feel that you feel entitled to my space. And that would be a problem. So that would be the first thing and. Creating safer spaces. Yeah, just don't assume. Oh, this is a big one.[Alani] Go ahead. [Liz] So neurodivergency (neurodiversity) is on the spectrum. OK. [Alani] Mm hmm.[Liz] So don't think because, you know, one ADHD person or one autistic person, they all act the same way. That is not the case, right? That that is a huge one, you know, because, again, you know, people might say,"oh, well, this has ADHD and she could do this.""So how come now you're telling me that you have ADHD and you can't?" Well, because we're all different. And and even there are times that I am capable of doing something at one time in my life and not capable in another. So definitely do not assume because, you know, one, you know them all. Yeah. So between the education component and, you know, not being afraid to have conversations and not assuming, I would say that those would be the the top three things I would say to start to understand, you know, people in a neurodivergent space.[Alani] Yeah, thank you. Y'all can't see, so pretend I'm like clapping and snapping my fingers. You can hear it. No. So yeah, I'm just hyping you up.[Liz] Yeah, I actually said that with a little bit of a neck roll. Like I was a little bit of stank the last time. Do not assume like if I could do lip smacks, I would have smacked my lips too. Because, you know, that's that's definitely a big one. Because I think once you do that and then, you know, because again, we would have to feel safe to have those conversations, right? And if you're coming and you're accusing and you're assuming or, you know, you're devaluing certain things, then of course, we're not going wanna disclose. And then but then those barriers are still there, right? Like just because we didn't talk about it, didn't mean that the issue magically erased itself. And then we have a problem. And then, of course, and they'll put it back on us."Oh, well, you should have told me". Well, I did not feel safe talking to you, sir.[Alani] Right. Right.[Liz] So, yeah, I would say that would be the top three things that I could say society can do to create a safer space.[Alani] Yeah. Well, thank you, Liz. I've been educated. I feel like all my listeners have been educated and I appreciate you.[Liz] I appreciate you. You got me out of my slum because, again, you know, it's hard when because the truth of the matter as as empowering as I'm sounding, I'm like,"yeah, you could do it." When I go home, I have that negative self speak. I'm like, "oh, my God, you can't do it." And then when I fall short in one thing, I go down that that spiral and then everything sucks and I now you can't do anything. And I really appreciated the episode that you had, which was, you know, creating while being, you know, neurodivergent, because I'm like, oh, my God, wait, that's me. So thank you for having me and thank you for being, you know, open so that we can continue to have these conversations with people.[Alani] Of course, I appreciate it. OK, tell us where everybody can find you. And if you got any upcoming projects you want to promote.[Liz] Yes, yes, yes. So. Obviously, you know, so tune in for, you know, the second part of this conversation, where we're going to be on my podcast,"Professional Pimpology" and in my episode, we're still going to be talking about neurodivergency, but we're really going to hone in more into you know, the workplace and how to navigate the workplace and specifically using some of those pimp rules to get us from point A to point B. And I'm available on, you know, most major platforms. So I'm on Spotify. I'm on Apple Podcasts. I'm also on YouTube. And yeah, so my next project will be part two with Alani in Professional Pimpology talking about being neurospicy in the workplace.[Alani] Yes, and I'm excited to record and I am really hyped. So thank you again.[Liz] Thank you for having me.[Alani] Thank you. So all links to support Liz will be in the description and all links to support me will also be in the description. Thank you for listening. And remember, it's OK to be human. Do what feels right and best for you. So stay tuned to where something new happens and it definitely will be boring. Bye. Bye.(upbeat music)(upbeat music)(upbeat music)(upbeat music)(upbeat music)